Ok, everyone take a deep breath
i know everyone is frustrated, annoyed, confused, deflated, peeved, sad, disgusted, and many other adjectives about the mets play, record, and the general way this season has gone. i completely agree that the mets have not lived up to expectations and that they should be doing much better. this losing and playing like crap needs to stop. however, all is not lost. in slumps like these, we just need to take a step back, look at the big picture, take a deep breath and wipe the slate clean. nobody should be happy or proud of the mets season so far, but we are only a little past the 1/3 mark of the season. we are 7.5 games back, with 32 games left until the all-star break. other than alou, who we can't expect to be healthy anyway due to age, we are the least injury riddled we have been in a long time. when we get pagan back it will help even more. our pitching has been fine, as rob said in his last post, and there's nothing to worry about there. santana has done great, so has maine, pedro is a passable 3 starter at worst, and pelfrey appears to be turing the corner "cross your fingers!). perez has sucked, but we can afford to get a bad start every now and then from him. no team really has a competent number 5 starter anyway, and there are times when perez looks great. inconsistency doesn't make him worthless. as for batting, we have done about as poorly as we can. we can only go up from here. if the phillies birdged a 7 game gap in 17 last year, why can't we in 2/3 of a season? people are acting like all hope is lost, the mets suck, we should just trade all our players, rebuild, and go home. that may be an exaggeration, but you get the point. people have given up, and it's too soon to do that. we don't need to dominate the NL east all year, like we did in 2006, to win it. with 32 games before even the all-star break, that is plenty of time to cut the defecit to, say, 3 games or so, putting us right back in the hunt with half the year left. it is not too much to ask that by the end of the year we could have a record back among the NL elite. we just have to take it step by step and do small goals, one at a time. it's a loooooong season, and we have only failed the first third of it, so lets hope the bats pick up and we can turn things around.
It's a long season, but...
It's a long season, but your post doesn't take into account that this team is barely a .500 team since the middle of last year. That being said, each time the Mets take a step forward, they wind up taking two steps back. Sorry, but too much time has passed for this life-long Mets fan to think that "the slate can be wiped clean" and things can change. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know there are many "personalities" on this team that just don't have that winning instinct. It sometimes seems like some of the guys are just "going thru the motions."
I certainly hope that things change, but I am not holding my breath...... I keep telling myself that maybe the Mets season will mirror the World Champion NY Football Giants, a slow start and gain momentum peaking at the end of the season. However, each time I think the Mets are turning the corner, they lose another 4 game series.
The Mets Can Come Back
I agree that the Mets can come back to go to the playoffs and/or win the division. The question is, "Will they come back?" I think it's real tough for the fans to go through the season wondering if and when this team will become a winner. For the moment I'm pessimistic, but always hopeful that my Mets will turn it around. Seems like that's been the story with me and the Mets for most of the last thirty years.
We are better on paper than we are playing, which gives me hope
I agree that there are no garuntees like you both said, and we very well could NOT trun it around. i just think it is a little ridiculous to be demanding us to trade beltran and i've even heard reyes trade requests. the guy's 24! him and wright should be the keystone's of this franchise for years to come, and trading him would be the WORST thing we can do. on paper, if everybody plays reasonably close to their potential, we shouldbe one of the best teams in the NL. these teams we are losing to (the padres, rockies, nationals, etc.) are not better than us. we are not losing games like 9-5 to better teams. we are losing 1 or 2 run games to teams we should be crushing. if our offense gets motivated and we start having some team chemistry, we are going to win some game, because on paper we can compete with any team in the mlb. this will be difficult to do, though, and our inability to play with enthusiasm falls on willie. don't get me wrong, i love willie, but he has failed this team so far this year, and if he can't start getting the best performance out of his players and stop the distractions and get them all motivated and focused, he needs to go.
i think part of the problem may be that we have too many veterans. people we are the oldest team in the MLB, which may be true, but i think that is misleading. we don't have many in-their-prime guys...church, schneider, and beltran, are the only starters between the ages of 28-32, and the only ones in our rotation those ages are santana and perez. most of our guys, therefore, are either really young or really old. my guess is that this can cause a rift in team chemistry. having the inexperienced, young, flashy 24 year olds wright and reyes playing right next to guys like delgado, alou, pedro, el duque, wagner, and tatis can probably be root of a rift. it would be like roger clemens trying to relate to carl crawford: they're just different and that may be hard to do. nothing against our older players, they all have a role and most of them do it well, but those who are not living up to expectaitions (cough cough, delgado) may need to start leaving. if i am omar minaya right nw, i am tryingto shop dealgado ASAP, for whatever we can get for him. same thing with heilman: he's not performing. el duque should be fired, because he is hurt 90% of the time and when he's not he is just a 45 year old, half decent pitcher not much better than pelfrey. alou is good, but rarely healthy, and maybe the mets could shop him too while he still has any value. also, this would free up some cap space to help us make a move on teixara in the offseason, and clearing out older names for newer ones is always a good idea.
as for this season, i am dissapointed but hopeful. i can't see us doing any worse than we are now, and the most pessimistic mets fan doesn't think we will end the year .500 and in 4th place. see my first post for reasons to hope, we are still in this thing. hopefully, we can pull it together and be within 4 games at the all-star break.
Oy Vey....
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/06/09/2008-06-09_wi...
Minaya's Rule A Reign of Terror?
Some pretty strong words in the post linked above by JNGold. It starts off with, "You are watching the painfully slow demise of The New Mets, the vision Omar Minaya articulated four years ago but built as a house of cards." Jeez I hope not.
Overstatement
I agree that that is an overstatement. the mets have a promising future and i don't think we will be demising any time soon. in 5-8 years time, we wil have reyes and wright in the primes of their careers, santana being himself (if a little less dominant by then), maine in his prime, pelfrey still before his prime as good starter, a bullpen with ambiorix burgos, dauner sanchez, joe smith, not to mention beltran, church, and schneider. plus, pagan is just 26, and we will have evans and those two great picks we got in the first round of the draft and super-prospect fernando martinez in the majors by then. that is a lot more than most teams can say. people say we have a depleted farm system, and are old, but i disagree. we have a lot of promise in the coming years.
Third Catcher?
"people say we have a depleted farm system, and are old, but i disagree."
Come on now. How do consider the farm system worth anything, when the only thing Omar can do is bring up a third catcher? I am a bit wary of the Mets' farm scouts as they have tended over the years to "over-hype" young talent.
Even the guys on the SNY Podcast (NYMetsPodcast) were pretty down on the farm system.
Look at our projected roster...
Well, look at our projected roster in 5 years time, assuming we don't lose anyone permanently with a major injury and assuming we don't trade anyone or sign anyone (and with our big money, it's likely we will be able to improve further). We will have shneider and castro at catcher, and while both will be aging we will also have the other reyes to back them up as a young guy. At first, we have that Ike guy we just drafted, who is projected with 30-35 homer power at the major league level with great defense. at second, we have that other first round pick (david something) who is a great defender, has great reflexes and insticnts, and is a solid hitter. then we will have wright and reyes in their primes at second and third. no explanation neccesary, they are stars. we will likely have an OF with an aging but still decent beltran, church, and the best prospect we have, a legitimate power threat compared to manny ramirez, fernando martinez. backing them in case of injury or just one of them not performing is Angel Pagan.
As for pitching, we will have johan, maine in his prime, vargas in his prime, perez (if he stops sucking) and pelfrey, who is looking much better. in the bullpen we will have burgos and smith and sanchez. i think that is a solid team, especially the lineup. we may need some younger pitching help, but why is that an old and depleted future?
Talent? Maybe. Close to Major League ready...NO WAY!
The one answer to your question "why is that an old and depleted future" is that the problem is that there is some talent and most of it (whatever is left) so far away from major league level that it is still a crap shoot. None of these players are marked as a "can't miss" nor is anyone ready to come up if one of our "father time" players go down with an injury.
WIth your pitching comments...only Johan and Maine are true quality guys. Hate to break it to ya...but Perez is out of here after this year. Vargas? Has he proven anything yet? Nope.
edit: Mets just won on a Beltran hr in the 13th. What a shame though, Pelfrey pitched 8 damn good innings and only let up one run! Freakin' Wagner blew the win for him. I know Wagner has been lights out pretty much, but he can be prone to "breakdowns" now and then. I feel bad for the kid (Pelfrey), he's pitched in some tough luck lately.
not major leauge ready now, but we don't need them to be!
ya i almost had a heart attack when i saw that homer. that was a must win too. hopefully beltran will start kicking into gear, we need him to have a little more power. i would expect 25-35 homers from him, but he has only hit 7.
anyway, i think that right now you are right...neither of those two draft picks nor f-mart or evans (whoi forgot to mention in my last post) are ready to come up yet. but in 5 years, when i set this roster, they all will be! for the time being, using veterans is ok...other than delgado and castillo all of them are performing decently, and are average everyday players. as the older guys (father players, as you called them) start leaving, we will gradually insert the above talent into the roster roles. might there be a small transition period between when our rising stars are ready to come up and when our older players can't perform anymore? yes, i think there will be. and i actually think we are entering that stage right now. delgado, castillo, alou, el duque, heilman, even pedro are getting older, and their play is decreasing. our overreliance on these players causes them to tire, and get hurt, meaning that we have to call up younger guys too soon (cough cough nick evans) and even when they are playing they are not their old selves. we are forced to either call up young guys too soon or put up with mediocre performance from the older ones. In 2-4 years though, all our prospeccts will be major league ready, and we will be able to replenish our roster with the young talent that we absolutely do still have on this team (see the above post). in the meantime, we will have to "put up" with a team including beltran, wright, reyes, church, schneider, santana, maine, pelfrey, and wagner, which is still a pretty good team! if we have to patchwork the remaining roster holes and the injuries with older guys and journeyman for the time being, so be it. but the core of our team, listed above, is still young and there is more on the way, so 3-5 years down the road i am not in the least bit worried about the state of this team.
You assume too much.....
I admire your optimism, but over the last 5-10 years, what you are proposing is just not way the Mets operate. With the exception of Wright and Reyes (who were deemed as "can't miss"), where did the rest of our "young talent" wind up? I tell you where...other teams! ;) I think you are under the impression that all this young talent will even be in the Mets farm system come 5 years and will pan out to be true major league talent. Remember, to get major league talent via trade, many times the farm system provides the impetus for teams to trade, especially when trading a high-priced player for low-paid minor league talent.
Good Discussion
I like the back and forth going on here. We need more of it. I haven't payed much attention to the Mets farm system myself. I've been reading that the system is depleted but maybe that kind of press is good for the young players. The Mets have had too many hyped prospects over the last decade. Some have wilted under the pressure I think.
I think that the Mets are in for a painful transition. See my latest post. I think it's time to be sellers and stock up on younger, healthier players. It's Omar's job to figure out who to get and how.
Good point, but that can be a good thing too
i agree that it is the mets tendency to deal away the good young prospects for stars, but that's not always a bad thing. it has worked, hasn't it? that has always been the yankees philosophy and they are the most storied, successful, popular sports franchise the world has ever known, whether we like to admit it or not. and the yankees have done the same sort of process to acquire a-rod, giambi, damon, and sheffeild, all of which worked out pretty well for them. true, if the mets had kept their younger guys we would have bannister, kazmir, humber, and a few others i am forgetting now, but we also wouldn't have beltran, santana, delgado (he used to help us!) or pedro. and when you have as much money as we do, and such a large city fanbase to assure continued income, it may be a better strategy to buy talent and make moves in free agency and trade away your younger talent for stars, because you can afford it. what i'm saying is that there's a big free agent market this year. teixara and CC and many others will all be out there, and both could help us tremendously. and even if they are resigned, you said that i was being optimistic saying that all those young players would stay with the team: well, if they don't, we will probably get another star out of them! youth is nice, but prime stars are better, and if we can continue to keep the stars comin like the yankees have been able to it gives us a big advantage over other teams and admit it, it is much mnore fun to say "my team has mark teixara, it rocks!" than to say "y team has fernando martinez, it will rock in 5 years!".
Post new comment